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Post by mango on Oct 29, 2012 9:14:00 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of telling a load of new gamers to stick their specialists to a certain base size, or buy a certain number of models to go in a squad, only to have the new rules potentially change that. Yep, nothing worse than handing someone a set of rules and saying 'here are the rules until they change in a couple of weeks' best way to put someone off the game, been there and seen that
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Post by RuneCaster_Aris on Oct 29, 2012 10:50:14 GMT -5
The only reason I've been after 1.1 sooner rather than later was to aid in army construction for new players. I'm not a fan of telling a load of new gamers to stick their specialists to a certain base size, or buy a certain number of models to go in a squad, only to have the new rules potentially change that. From what I understand of the new rules set, the differences between 1.0 and 1.1 will be such that you can build and learn in 1.0 and make mild tweaks in 1.1. There won't be WH40K levels of overhaul, (thank god). Seems like there are just new things to play with and some better clarification.
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Post by inrepose on Oct 29, 2012 11:07:22 GMT -5
There is nothing different about unit sizes or basing in the new rules. It is all the same standard accept you can now choose to make the unit smaller or up to 10 with the builder (either with pencil adding up or using the Barracks app). The recommended standard unit size is still 6 + up to two Squad attachments but the new rules offer some flexibility to cater for people that wanted to match some smaller fire teams.
I based my original ideas for the rules on a mix of miniatures and WWII/current squad structure.
A section, patrol or squad (all valid names) are listed at a size of 8-13 for most world forces. This normally consists of 2 fire teams of 4 or even several maneuverer teams of 2 or 3. A platoon would be 26-55 models with a couple of vehicles and is probably the entry level for a game if you are starting out with four/five squads and a 3-4 vehicles.
So with these thoughts in mind I looked at the most prolific supplier of 15mm models which was GZG and the pack of 8 infantry they sell as a standard. You normally get 5 standard squad members, a leader model and two heavy weapons in standard GZG pack. This is not very clear to most people because the models are small and they don't put good photos on the web site. So based on GZG I decided on building a standard of 6 squad members and adding +2 to represent the support weapons. Whilst playing I usually take a squad of 6 and one support weapon, it just works for me from a gameplay perspective because it keeps things simple.
Through play-testing the size of 6 models + support weapons worked, was not onerous to move about the table (given the small size of models) and felt about right when attacking, rolling shooting etc. How the units felt to play with was important, not just the paperwork. Having spent many years trying different rules that promised to work well for 15mm+28mm, I was always looking for something that felt like it gamed well in the smaller scale. 28mm games often just don't feel right even with some basic changes to ranges etc.
Apologies I appear to have drifted off into non-stop typing mode!
Anyway the short answer is that the proof has not arrived with me yet, although I am chasing and strongly expecting delivery this week so I can get things moving for the release.
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Post by papabees on Oct 29, 2012 13:50:59 GMT -5
So just to clarify are you going to ship and release the electronic copies on the same day or are you waiting to release the new electronic copies once the hard copies are supposed to be delivered?
Also, any chance for a few teasers while we wait to sate our appetite?
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Post by twogunsblazing on Oct 29, 2012 19:59:21 GMT -5
Robin is just as locked into the fact that the postal service will get the proof copy to him in their own sweet time, there's nothing he can do about it...I'm sure he wants it to rock up on his door step just as much as we do, if for no other reason that the pressure is relieved from his shoulders...it's still fun to make light of the postal service delays though...clearly I need to drag my crystal ball out and put some fresh batteries in it....the new tarrot cards I bought didn't work!!!
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Post by twogunsblazing on Oct 29, 2012 20:02:56 GMT -5
...and yeah, for what it's worth Robin, I'd like to be able to have the PDF made available for download at the same time as the print copies are actioned. Being able to print out and read the base rules for use whilst awaiting the colour print copy to arrive in the post is highly desirable, thanks
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Post by inrepose on Oct 30, 2012 11:50:09 GMT -5
I will see how things pan out with regard to releasing the PDF. I was actually aiming on releasing the hardcopy first and following with the PDF update. I know everyone wants to grab a copy ASAP, I would just prefer to honour those that paid a bit more for the hardcopy first. Depends on timing mostly, they are taking an age getting me my colour proof!
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Post by timsnoddy on Oct 30, 2012 12:45:20 GMT -5
I will see how things pan out with regard to releasing the PDF. I was actually aiming on releasing the hardcopy first and following with the PDF update. I know everyone wants to grab a copy ASAP, I would just prefer to honour those that paid a bit more for the hardcopy first. Depends on timing mostly, they are taking an age getting me my colour proof! I purchased the hard copy via the kickstarter and certainly would have no objections to the PDF being released first. I really doubt anyone else would object. I suspect most people are eager to get their teeth into the new version. When the test copy arrives it will take you some time to proof read it. Then the main production run would start, with a lead time judging by the proof copy of a couple of weeks minimum. We are starting to get mighty close to Christmas when peoples attention might be elsewhere.
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Post by twogunsblazing on Oct 30, 2012 17:12:08 GMT -5
Speaking for myself only, I bought the Indiegogo gig with Barracks and hard copy print and I have no problems what-so-ever of non-supporters getting access to the PDF before I get my hard copy print...but I do appreciate very much your thoughtfulness in this regard, Robin.
From my point of view, living in Australia means that postage will take two weeks, and if it takes the company a couple of weeks to organise, print off and dispatch my copy, it could easily be a month or more before I have it in my hand from when you give the final go ahead to the company. With the PDF, I could have it the same day you give the final go ahead for release.
Having the PDF available to me straight away would mean I can print off the relevent rules sections and start reading and using them immediately, instead of having to wait a further month+. I'll still very much enjoy the full colour hard copy when it arrives for all the pictures, further rules content and fiction that you have included.
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Post by Mr. Harold on Oct 30, 2012 17:42:56 GMT -5
That's what i'll be doing!
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Post by baldlea on Oct 30, 2012 18:33:28 GMT -5
Aww. Go on Robin, release the pdf :-)
Besides, the kickstarter was for the Barracks not for the books per se.
People who own 1.0 have already shown some loyalty, too.
Cajole, cajole etc etc.
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Post by twogunsblazing on Oct 31, 2012 2:17:17 GMT -5
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Post by mango on Oct 31, 2012 2:48:40 GMT -5
How much can a koala bear?
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Post by timvidlak on Oct 31, 2012 6:26:01 GMT -5
I put into the kick starter but not at the level for a printed copy of the rules & already had a copy of 1.1 coming as I had bought 1.0 if the rules are done they should be released in the pdf so we can start using them. Unless the issues with the printed copy will change the rules just release them already.
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Post by Ben on Oct 31, 2012 8:36:54 GMT -5
Aww. Go on Robin, release the pdf :-) Besides, the kickstarter was for the Barracks not for the books per se. People who own 1.0 have already shown some loyalty, too. Cajole, cajole etc etc. I quote every single word. I think it's the most logical choice and universally adopted by all! I suspect indeed that the real reason because Robin wants to release the pdf after the book is that he doesn't want to correct the pdf and then the book again as soon as readers will find errors or typos in the pdf. The second possibility is that the 1.1 is not finished yet, and is the worst possibility Unfortunately, projects like kickstarter or similar are a double-edged sword and require a serious and accurate planning. High expectation create frustration earlier, refound request later and a very bad advertisement for the product! Ben
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