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Post by rage13 on Jun 25, 2012 4:54:20 GMT -5
I had my second game of Gruntz the other day, which I thoroughly enjoyed, but it did raise a number of questions around unit building & perks which I hope someone can answer. So here goes -
1. We were confused about the 'Light them up' perk. I had assumed these were some kind of target designators built into weapons, my opponent thought the whole unit had to use an action to paint a target & then couldn't shoot, whilst a 3rd person thought only 1 Grunt needed to do this. Any clarification on this? 2. The rules say vehicles (& presumably mecha/mini-mecha) firing a 2nd weaponn fire at -1. If they have a 3rd weapon can they fire it? If so at -2? What about a 4th weapon etc. 3. Following on from above the 'Let er rip' perk lets you fire twice, so are these shots treated as 2nd shots/3rd shots etc? 4. We came across some situations where it wasn't possible to score a 'hit' - should we roll the dice anyway to see if we can get a double 6 or only when a hit is possible? 5. Grav vehicles can do a pop up move. Can they do a pop up attack - so they appear over the terrain & shoot? If so is this 1 action or 2? Do they then pop back down again, effectively only making them a target to units on overwatch? Alternatively should a penalty apply for a target moving out of sight to reflect a snapshot being taken? 6. I have purchased an excellent Rebel minis VTOL aircraft, which I intended to use as a ground attack aircraft, not a transport aircraft, but weapon restrictions seem very limited? How should I do this? 7. If i want to shoot at a building to try to demolish it do I have to hit it - if so how - or is the equivalent of shooting a barn door? 8. Breaking the Class rules. My opponent used the rules on P48 to purchase SA Medium Lasers for a 6 man squad - & paid 5 points to upgrade everyone in the squad. This seems wrong as he got 6 SA Medium Lasers for the price of one. Surely this cost should be for each Grunt armed in this way. The same question applies to Power Armour on P50 if I want to give an 8 man squad integral rocket launchers do I have to pay 8 x 6 points for SA Missile Launcher or just once? 9. Is there meant to be a light / heavy version of the Vehicle Medium Gatling Projectile - it seems stuck out on its own. 10. Can a mini Mecha, built as a specialist carry more than 1 weaponn type or it it limited to a single primary weaponn, plus CCW plus grenades? 11. APC's seem to be terribly expensive compared to other more offensive troops. My grav APC to move a squad of power armoured troops around & armed with just a light plasma gun costs 30 points which is a significant part of a 150 point game & just gets destroyed by missile armed mini mechs which are a fraction of the cost (20 points including 2 perks - Higher Mods / Let Rip - which make these very mean). Or am i not costing this correctly? 12. And finally, if a grav vehicle executes a pop up move to move over terrain do you deduct the vertical movement from its total move or just measure horizontally?
Sorry, lots of questions, but we're keen to resolve these so we can move onto another game!!
Thanks in advance.
Dik.
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Post by papabees on Jun 25, 2012 7:23:51 GMT -5
I'll answer the ones I know: 1. Person three was correct. One model needs to use an action to designate the targets. The remainder of the squad can fire using the benefit. 2. You can fire a maximum of two weapons in a turn. 3. These are treated as a normal shot but you sacrifice your movement to do it. 4. 5. 6. I think this may be addressed in the 1.1 rules but others have expressed the same concern. 7. 8. The cost is added per model not per squad so the squad would have cost 30 to the build cost. But remember it's divided by two at the end so it would have raised the squad cost at the end by 15 pts. 9. 10. My understanding is that it is limited to a single primary. 11. I'd need to see your APC stats but the GRAV move can be very valuable. 12.
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Post by timsnoddy on Jun 25, 2012 11:51:30 GMT -5
And my try Q4 Yes, a natural 12 is always a hit. Q5 My interpretation is the pop up attack is one move action and to shoot uses the other action of the grav vehicle. Thus they are only a target to units on overwatch. This is a significant advantage for grav vehicles and needs to be addressed in 1.1 points if this is what is intended. Q7 Yes you roll to hit. A natural 2 is always a miss any other result hits. A natural 2 probably a misfire or weapon jam in this case. Q9 Q12
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Post by gypsycomet on Jun 25, 2012 22:01:11 GMT -5
Hmm. So how does Light em up interact with the Indirect Fire rules on page 25 (v 1.0)?
Anyone in your force can spot on a turn-by-turn basis with no range limitation but no bonuses aside from being able to fire at all? LEU has a shorter range but need only be done to a target once (being persistent), and gives a +1 to hit?
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Post by papabees on Jun 26, 2012 7:41:21 GMT -5
Hmm. So how does Light em up interact with the Indirect Fire rules on page 25 (v 1.0)? Anyone in your force can spot on a turn-by-turn basis with no range limitation but no bonuses aside from being able to fire at all? LEU has a shorter range but need only be done to a target once (being persistent), and gives a +1 to hit? The above is my understanding yes. All you need to do to spot is have LOS.
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Post by gypsycomet on Jun 26, 2012 10:03:52 GMT -5
The persistence, implied by the Perk, probably needs to be spelled out a little more.
I'm assuming that the LEU unit doesn't have to keep LOS after designation, but does the designation last one turn, until death of the target, and/or death of the LEU unit?
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Post by inrepose on Jun 26, 2012 14:24:21 GMT -5
1. We were confused about the 'Light them up' perk. I had assumed these were some kind of target designators built into weapons, my opponent thought the whole unit had to use an action to paint a target & then couldn't shoot, whilst a 3rd person thought only 1 Grunt needed to do this. Any clarification on this?
1 Grunt does the painting. Yes it is either a digital or laser based target designation.
2. The rules say vehicles (& presumably mecha/mini-mecha) firing a 2nd weaponn fire at -1. If they have a 3rd weapon can they fire it? If so at -2? What about a 4th weapon etc.
-3 for the third. -3 is the maximum though - so a 4th weapon will be at -3 also. The new cards will have 5 slots for weapons + Ram/Bash.
3. Following on from above the 'Let er rip' perk lets you fire twice, so are these shots treated as 2nd shots/3rd shots etc?
Let rip would be at no minus.
4. We came across some situations where it wasn't possible to score a 'hit' - should we roll the dice anyway to see if we can get a double 6 or only when a hit is possible?
Yes 12 is always a hit. Note that long range is now -3 not -4. It takes the edge of those situations which were nearly impossible to hit.
5. Grav vehicles can do a pop up move. Can they do a pop up attack - so they appear over the terrain & shoot? If so is this 1 action or 2? Do they then pop back down again, effectively only making them a target to units on overwatch? Alternatively should a penalty apply for a target moving out of sight to reflect a snapshot being taken?
Yes it is a pop up and down in 1 action. I need to write this more clearly. Both Grav, VTOL and Heli types can do it. Yes just a target to overwatch. No additional penalty for appearing and disappearing in current rules.
6. I have purchased an excellent Rebel minis VTOL aircraft, which I intended to use as a ground attack aircraft, not a transport aircraft, but weapon restrictions seem very limited? How should I do this?
There are attack craft in the new rules, but you could still make it as a support vehicle and add on the weapons desired.
7. If i want to shoot at a building to try to demolish it do I have to hit it - if so how - or is the equivalent of shooting a barn door?
Barn door. I think I wrote that it was a hit on a 5 - but may have missed it. So in 99% of situations you would hit but only miss on double 1. Like English football players in penalty shoot outs.
8. Breaking the Class rules. My opponent used the rules on P48 to purchase SA Medium Lasers for a 6 man squad - & paid 5 points to upgrade everyone in the squad. This seems wrong as he got 6 SA Medium Lasers for the price of one. Surely this cost should be for each Grunt armed in this way. The same question applies to Power Armour on P50 if I want to give an 8 man squad integral rocket launchers do I have to pay 8 x 6 points for SA Missile Launcher or just once?
> SA weapons are for squad attachments and you can have up to 2 squad attachments added to a squad of 6 Grunts (total 8 men if you add two squad attachment models). I actually normally play with just one squad attachment making most of my squads 7 in size but it would be fair to play with 1 SA with a RPG (anti armor) and the second SA with a anti-infantry LMG etc.
There is nothing stopping you breaking the rules but you might find a Gruntz squad with let rip and heavy SA weapons are capable of tearing holes in anything and a little unbalanced (unless the opponent also has the same idea).
So as per the current rules squads are:
6 Men with standard grunts weapons + up to 2 squad attachments (still the same grunts but with weapons selected from the SA table).
9. Is there meant to be a light / heavy version of the Vehicle Medium Gatling Projectile - it seems stuck out on its own.
There are in 1.1. So coming soon.
10. Can a mini Mecha, built as a specialist carry more than 1 weaponn type or it it limited to a single primary weaponn, plus CCW plus grenades?
I had abstracted these, so that whatever weapons carried were simply combined into a damage output i.e. The model might have two weapons on it but you count them as 1 weapon for game purposes. I would suggest you used light mecha to add a second weapon, rather than specialist. However in 1.1 you have Vehicle Specialists which are specific to hardware walkers, droids etc rather than the normal softer specialists like human medics.
11. APC's seem to be terribly expensive compared to other more offensive troops. My grav APC to move a squad of power armoured troops around & armed with just a light plasma gun costs 30 points which is a significant part of a 150 point game & just gets destroyed by missile armed mini mechs which are a fraction of the cost (20 points including 2 perks - Higher Mods / Let Rip - which make these very mean). Or am i not costing this correctly?
What size was the APC? You might also over loaded yourself with a high SKILL statistic which would ramp the cost up and be a waste to have an expert gunner in a low cost vehicle. I see most light/scout APC's in the 18-23 pts bracket.
Also remember normal infantry fire is -2 damage against vehicles. This gives vehicles the edge when facing infantry fire, and if they flank move they get another -2 on the shoot if you are targeting the vehicle. The reason for the maximun of 2 squad attachments was partly balancing and partly a reflection of supply to a squad where usually some sort of assault weapon is standard issue and 1 or 2 squad members are given heavier SAW type weapons. It sounds like your opponent had a squad with let rip and higher powered SA weapons which would tear up a vehicle. SA weapons with AP don't suffer the -2 damage against vehicles. 12. And finally, if a grav vehicle executes a pop up move to move over terrain do you deduct the vertical movement from its total move or just measure horizontally?
I have been simply measuring abstractly to represent the horizontal movement, however it seems fair to measure for buildings taller than 8inches.
I think most of the other folk responding had also answered correctly, apologies for repeat answers I just stuck in. Thanks for the questions.
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Post by papabees on Jun 26, 2012 16:26:19 GMT -5
2. The rules say vehicles (& presumably mecha/mini-mecha) firing a 2nd weaponn fire at -1. If they have a 3rd weapon can they fire it? If so at -2? What about a 4th weapon etc. -3 for the third. -3 is the maximum though - so a 4th weapon will be at -3 also. The new cards will have 5 slots for weapons + Ram/Bash. [/color][/quote] Is this new for 1.1?
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Post by jeffw75 on Jun 26, 2012 17:04:33 GMT -5
What was the verdict on using SA weapons to arm power armor gruntz as per page 50? Do you just pay for the weapon once per normal gruntz building or pay for it for each squad member? By the RAW, it seems as though you just follow normal unit construction procedure.
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Post by papabees on Jun 27, 2012 15:11:46 GMT -5
What was the verdict on using SA weapons to arm power armor gruntz as per page 50? Do you just pay for the weapon once per normal gruntz building or pay for it for each squad member? By the RAW, it seems as though you just follow normal unit construction procedure. Once for each squad member.
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quozl
Sub General
Posts: 165
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Post by quozl on Jun 29, 2012 9:00:26 GMT -5
Once for each squad member. Thanks for explaining that guys. I didn't understand how that worked. So I've now added support to the gruntomatic for taking SA weapons on gruntz squads which are wearing power armour, and I've based the costing on this answer. Here's a sample unit, please let me know if you think I'm doing it wrong - gruntomatic.com/gom/unit/697
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Post by jeffw75 on Jun 29, 2012 11:48:00 GMT -5
So how do you cost out a unit in heavy PA, then, packing SA Mdm Lasers? Do you add in all six weapons and then divide the sum by two -or- use the RAW gruntz builder adding in one SA Mdm Laser, divide by two, and then add five more SA Mdm lasers at full cost?
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quozl
Sub General
Posts: 165
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Post by quozl on Jun 29, 2012 13:26:32 GMT -5
I've gone with adding 6 x cost of SA Weapon BEFORE the total is divided. So it'll end up as 3xcost of SA Weapon in the final unit cost. I can change that if it's incorrect.
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Post by papabees on Jun 29, 2012 16:17:38 GMT -5
I've gone with adding 6 x cost of SA Weapon BEFORE the total is divided. So it'll end up as 3xcost of SA Weapon in the final unit cost. I can change that if it's incorrect. This is how I've done it.
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Post by inrepose on Jul 4, 2012 5:06:24 GMT -5
Power armour in Barracks will be adding SA weapons to power armour on a per man basis (exactly what Papabees said).
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