Anti-Infantry weapon costs

[knightdrake]

I've been building some vehicle stats and I found it odd the cost on AI weapons. Example: building a medium tank with vehicle medium projectile(cost 3) then add any projectile weapons from squad attach or specialist selection and pay more than main gun cost. It seems you pay a premium on adding AI weapons to armor and mecha vehicles. Shouldn't it be more on the lines of a discount to add an AI weapon to a tank. The cost of the squad and specialist within those builds are reasonable but with vehicle AI choice they are overcosted.

[pancake]

Yeh it is abit odd, allso i find it odd that the weapon damage of some weapons is strange. The AP damage of some weapons dont reflect the weapon they are. My rules folder is up stairs at the moment but when building my units the damage some weapons do, just dont look wright. maybe its me.

[knightdrake]

I look at the damage as abstract especially when factoring in AOE and AP.

[Raziel]

I would rather see all weapons balanced.
It's a game, doesn't have to be realistic. Every type of weapon, be it plasma, laser or projectile could have lvl's and same point cost but different stats, so every one could have its own benefits.

Making more distinktive changes would involve changing the core mechanic, to make armour piercing work different way, so lighter weapons had difficulty penetrating armour yet heavy guns had lesser effect on mobile infantry.

[comstar]

Sept 16, 2011 9:16:18 GMT -5 knightdrake said:

I've been building some vehicle stats and I found it odd the cost on AI weapons. Example: building a medium tank with vehicle medium projectile(cost 3) then add any projectile weapons from squad attach or specialist selection and pay more than main gun cost. It seems you pay a premium on adding AI weapons to armor and mecha vehicles. Shouldn't it be more on the lines of a discount to add an AI weapon to a tank. The cost of the squad and specialist within those builds are reasonable but with vehicle AI choice they are overcosted.

I just half the cost of the weapons from the Gruntz weapons, Squad Attachment and Specialist as you do when making those type of units in the first place It seems to work out ok for me at least.

Cheers Matt

[marauder]

Sept 16, 2011 19:57:10 GMT -5 comstar said:

I just half the cost of the weapons from the Gruntz weapons, Squad Attachment and Specialist as you do when making those type of units in the first place It seems to work out ok for me at least.

Cheers Matt

Yes, I agree with this. Although is only something you encounter with scout and light vehicles, who have to take squad or specialist weapons. Medium vehicles and up should be taking the regular vehicle weapons. All vehicles should be purchasing the much cheaper "anti infantry" weapons off of the vehicle chart.

[inrepose]

I think the cost of AI will balance better when the Full Auto rule is applied. It makes them more effective, even when fired on repeat at other vehicles.

[kealios]

Seems to me there are really only 4 options for the Vehicle's Anti-Infantry weapons, pulled straight from the rulebook on p.51 under "Anti-Infantry" at the top of the page. The most expensive item there is 2 points.

Yes, in the Army Builder v2.0, the drop-down shows Squad and Specialist weapons, but dont use those. Limit yourself to the "Vehicle X" on the dropdown and you'll be where you need to be.

[knightdrake]

I wouldn't consider that the best course, a .50 cal or even a .30 cal wouldn't be using a light vehicle weapon.

[vonted]

Related question..... so my mech mounted uber anti-infantry weapon can only kill one trooper/grunt per turn? There is no spill over fro my damage to other members of the gruntz squad?

[inrepose]

vonted That depends if you have a weapon with an AE which can target multiple. However it took some significant gameplay testing to work through the situation of: "OK I have a weapon that can mow down a squad with one shot". I did try multiple variants but the result did not balance well or play well because most vehicles just instantly cut up entire units.

I think the minor modification of having a D3 additional potential targets hit in the squad with a rapid fire weapon does sort this situation out. It feels just about right whilst playing it, without the overkill.

[vonted]

I like the sounds of that... right now I am having a tough time thinking that taking mechs over infantry is really worth the bother. From a "guns on target" perspective infantry bring a lot more firepower to the table it seems. (not necessarily a bad idea)

[tyrela]

you can fit multiple weapons and have some be aoe on a mech though.. just sayin...

[inrepose]

True you can take multiples on a mech, so although the Anti infantry feels a little weak until you add the D3 extra, you can take multiples. It is still an abstracted damage situation though but I can understand how you would like a big walking weapon to be able to wipe out a unit of Gruntz.

I actually tried many different methods in my goal of making damage spread in a unit. They all resulted in record keeping, math-on-the-fly or other issues like one method which always seemed to end up with 2 gruntz dead when you started to spread the damage. I really think the new D3 auto fire does help though and should prevent overkill when you get to try it.

[josedominguez]

How about an overkill perk? Make it really expensive but additional damage takes out extra models. Only used to represent the most devastating anti infantry weapons. Could also apply to close combat for real melee monsters: ninja, the predator etc.