|
|
Post by inrepose on Apr 23, 2012 4:00:58 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by fjodin on Apr 23, 2012 6:06:03 GMT -5
Thanx for report! Love terrain, minis and laminated cards.
May I ask a question? Did you use 5 or 4 for shooting?
|
|
|
|
Post by inrepose on Apr 23, 2012 7:43:33 GMT -5
I used 5 for shooting on most of the cards, accept for a couple of commanders. I also give the spider droids a 6 because of their pinpoint accuracy and the stability of the laser gun platform that those legs provide. They were deadly and drew fire away from the other vehicles.
Players that took the MIL-SEC "ARM" force which included the Imperator did really well if they focused totally on the taking out the vehicles (hi-mobility wheeled APC's). However some players could not resisit supporting their Gruntz better and firing the arsenal of weapons the Mecha carried into the Spider droids and the other defending New Hyadum trade army Gruntz. They then tended to lose out in the long run because the light vehicles then slowly stuck some damage into the mecha.
One lucky player scored an early critical on the armour system of the Imperator and it was then doomed to be picked off slowly by other lighter incoming fire.
I got the most pleasure from using a Mortar team specialist on the New Hyadum trade defenders team. It slowly pounded the approach of the ARM Gruntz with the occasional lucky deviation of the mortar (if I failed the initial shot).
|
|
|
|
Post by fjodin on Apr 23, 2012 8:17:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by tugunmojo on Apr 23, 2012 8:27:45 GMT -5
that looked like is was a blast!
|
|
|
|
Post by inrepose on Apr 23, 2012 8:52:36 GMT -5
fjodin - 4 is not a bad idea but I think it does make it hard to hit, especially at long range where you will often need 10/11. At least for the show games I wanted to make it a bit easier for players to engage and get some damage in, so they can understand the mechanics rather than just missing. I still managed one game where a player consistently rolled 2-4 on every single attack roll from the Imperator and Grav based Viper droids. He ended up taking out the vehicles though, it just took him longer to get the fire power focused in.
|
|
|
|
Post by fjodin on Apr 23, 2012 8:57:28 GMT -5
OK. I see your point and totaly agreed with you. So I change all my Victorian Stats, (my other cards use 5 for shooting for regular soldier).
What do you think about Assault 5 for orks, stong humanoids, 19 century infantry with bayonets and Assault 4 for modern or sci-fi infantry with Assault rifles?
|
|
|
|
Post by inrepose on Apr 23, 2012 10:00:41 GMT -5
I might drop Orks or Guln Horde (as their cousins are called in the Gruntz universe) to a 4 for the bulk Gruntz units to represet their cheaper unit and low quality. Then a few more elite Guln units could have a higher factor. Mental stat plays a much bigger part in the game with the planned "Mental" check to shake off suppression when you lose a casualty and Mental check to get a react-fire off in assault. With this in mind the lower cost squads like Guln Horde will also suffer if they have the lower Mental skill and I think it is a good way to present more highly trained squads - give them a higher Mental and they should perform better under fire which has a ring of realism to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by timsnoddy on Apr 23, 2012 12:21:53 GMT -5
Aagh! I have just spent an age restatting all my cards to 4 shoot for army type regulars. OK we will probably never going to game together but...
I really thought that made a lot of sense. 2 for civilian, 3 for militia types, 4 for regulars, 5 for veterans, 6 for those with a lot of experience or belonging to special units and 7 for elite.
If 5 if going to be the most common stat I can't really see how to differentiate the 3 lower stats or them getting a lot of use. Surely hitting at long range should be hard? Personally I very much like the big jump from difficult to hit shooting at long range to deadly at short range. Seems right to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by inrepose on Apr 23, 2012 17:31:33 GMT -5
I think 4 is still in the running for a serious game. As I said it was a demo event so I wanted players to spend time thinking about how shooting and damage works, rather than getting a bit frustrated. A more experienced player would know how to get close, then get a squad into cover, keep the stationary for a turn to improve shooting chances etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by fjodin on Apr 23, 2012 18:11:23 GMT -5
I just made small test battle on big table and found that rifle range of 8 is a bot short, and most times I use long range. And with Shoot4 with -4 penalty (or -3 penalty in v1.1) its nearly impossible to hit enemy, especially if they are in cover.... So now I think for smoot game 5 is good because of assault rifle range. If all rifles had long ranges like in Force on FOrce, where you can hit enemy from opposing edge of the map, shooting 5 is overpowered... But I really like the idea: 2 for civilian, 3 for militia types, 4 for regulars, 5 for veterans, 6 for those with a lot of experience or belonging to special units and 7 for elite. Maybe we should use new definition, like: Green - totaly unexperienced with guns. Like civilian, who shoots for first time, or rioting mob Trained - civilians with gun experience, bandits and thugs. Seasoned - Cops, Volounteers, Colonial Militia, conscrips Veteran - regulars professional soldier Expert - Spetsnaz, Marines, SWAT Elite - elites and snipers Well... If someone likes to use 4 or 5 for their regulars, its up to them  We have unit builder and point system (wich will be ungraded in v1.1), so if someone will play game with regulars with shooting 4 against 5, the player with 4 will have cheaper units and will be able to field more. The reason, I am asking is that I making lots of stat cards for Grunz players and really want to know their opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by fjodin on Apr 23, 2012 18:34:15 GMT -5
Now the situation with Guln Horde. Maybe to represent their strenght in world of "5" for shooting for regulars we can do this:  All Gulns and other orc or Mangalore like aliens, will have Assault 5 ansd Shoot4, to represent that they are good in melee but not so good in shooting.  For all regular humans we give 5 for Shoot and 4 for melee, because modern and near future human soldiers are not so trained in melee.   All trained for melee regulars (like analog of 19-early 20 century soldiers with bayonets or 40k Imperial Guards on pictures above) have 5 for shoot and melee.  All xenomorphs, tyranids and big orcs will have 6 for melee. Maybe this will be good for realism and gameplay? What do you think? Here is an example. I REMADE these cards. Earth Force Marines are typical sci-fi soldiers with Shoot 5 and Assault 4. Sahadeens have good training with their melee weapons and have 5 for melee. Tyranid Rippers are very good in melee, so they have Assault6    |
|
|
|
Post by papabees on Apr 23, 2012 20:25:48 GMT -5
I really like the pages with the datacards attached and the pictures and faction icons on them. It would be cool to have some sort of template to duplicate them. Or I would love for you to post them and the scenarios.
|
|
|
|
Post by timsnoddy on Apr 24, 2012 11:37:33 GMT -5
Sorry to say it Fjodin but I don't think there is any appetite for people to agree stats and as Robin says it does depend a bit on what type of game you want to play. Games seemed to be going well for me on the stats I was using so I think I will stick with them. Probably just going to be for each gaming group to agree on definitions and what numbers they want to use. I hope the points reflect the jump from 4 to 5 shoot as statistically this is the biggest leap in chance to hit for any move of 1 in the shoot stat.
Papabees, I have been using Fjodin's excellent cards by downloading the picture and modifying using the free program paint.net Perhaps not the easiest or best solution but it works.
|
|
|
|
Post by fjodin on Apr 24, 2012 22:38:10 GMT -5
I am gonna to make future cards with shoot5, because I can see most of gamers, use "veteran" level of training. If someone like timsnoddy vision (I llke) of regulars with shot of 4 they can change the number to 4 with graphical editors. For my Colonials I'll stick with shot of 4. Because rifles dont have firepower of modern assault rifles with automatic fire. And also no one have armor in colonial era. gruntz15.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=profiles&action=display&thread=426So if you want to represent difference between bolt action rifle and assault rifle, just use Shoot5 for assault rifle and Shot4 for Bolt action rifle. Same range, same damage, but you have more chances to hit enemy with assault rifle because of its rapid fire |
|
We have unit builder and point system (wich will be ungraded in v1.1), so if someone will play game with regulars with shooting 4 against 5, the player with 4 will have cheaper units and will be able to field more. 