Rules for crossfire etc?

[gorath]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone was using any (house) rules for effects like crossfire.
It's one of the things I miss in most tabletop systems. In most of them the directions a unit is shoot at doesn't matter that much. Using rules for this and making the target unit more easy to hit etc would stimulate players to outflank their opponent more and use different units in conjunction which each other to supress or take down enemies, and add an extra tactical element to a gamesystem

I have yet to play a game of Gruntz, but wouldn't the Guard stat be something that could be penalized when a unit is shoot at from different directions in a rather easy way?

Things like both friendly units being able to trace a line through the target unit to each other. Each would have to be at least half the strenght of the target unit etc.

Anybody got any thoughts on this?

[tommytsv31]

Sounds reasonable to me. If you want that as a house rule go for gold! i have a few house rules of my own like who ever had the highest assault value struck first.

[comstar]

Maybe if cought in a crossfire unit has to make a mental check and if failed has to go to ground ie drops prone and is suppressed?

[zombie4prophet]

It is a very good point, and the reduction in Guard seems appropriate, as does the Mental check. The problem I see with the Mental Check approach is that it needs to be determined what triggers the Test. Is it two units being "in position" to catch them in a crossfire, or do they have to actually target the unit?

In position does not work as it gives a free effect and would allow the units to target other units. The argument for this is that if you let your troops get into that situation there should be consequences, however, I think a simple reduction in Guard from being subjected to Crossfire will work to increase casualties, and should result in a Mental check.

Crossfire - whenever two friendly units of can trace a straight line through the Target unit, the target unit's Guard is reduced by one for the first unit firing and by two for the second unit firing in that Turn. These modifiers do apply to GruntZ firing on anything other than other GruntZ.

This does open up the question about Enfilading fire as units shot from the flank or rear traditionally take heavy casualties or break in such circumstances. I apply a -1 Guard, -1 Soak for Flank Shots and a -2 Guard, -2 Soak for rear shots. For GruntZ I reduce the penalty to -1 Guard (flank) and -2 Guard, -1 Soak as infantry direction is variable throughout the Section and infantry protection is not developed like modern vehicles.

The problem is of course, once you start down the path of modifiers for every circumstance or tactic, you clutter what is a simple, elegant system. I suppose that is the purpose of 'House Rules' as it allows you to determine the amount of 'Crunch' in your game.

[comstar]

I would say do it as an optional rule. It would only apply when two units which are opposite them and fire at them would get the condition. I would say that try and keep it to standard conditions as applying more modifiers spoils the simplism of the game!

[gorath]

Hi,

my original post is actually quite some time ago
Already had a topic on the Yahoo group and I've mailed Robin about it.

You would indeed need the situation where a unit is fired upon by at least two units. Or to be precise, when a unit is already been fired upon this turn the second unit shooting at them would get this rule.
In Gruntz shooting at an enemy is your action. In this scale of game other enemy units close to you are in no danger as there is no abstract interaction (no firefights outside a unit actually choosing to shoot at an enemy). So getting crossfire by just standing with two units at opposing ends of the target unit, but deciding to shoot at different units would not work in this game. It would make the rule to strong.

You would indeed have to be on different angles of the target unit. Also to add the element of having to outflank the enemy units, adding extra movement to the game. To check this LOS through the target unit could be used.

You then have the element of "how many shots are needed?". If you allowed a single trooper in the back get crossfire effects on a full unit you would be able to abuse this rule very fast.

I would then give the target unit a -1 to guard when shot at by the subsequent units. I would keep it at that, not adding -1's for each extra unit shooting. Also to keep the modifers very simple as been said above. As the units don't have facing in this game, I wouldn't use a negative modifier to soak. Same also for the fluency of the game.
A unit behind a wall, being flanked would already have it's cover negated and the -1 by the second unit, so it does add up if you manouvre good.
From the Yahoo group also came the idea of an automatic suppression. It sounds harsh, but it would actually mean that the unit under fire either decides to hunker down and shoot (whithout the +1 for shooting stationary I guess?) or get a move on without shooting. it's also an simple elegant way of using rule already there to reflect this state.

The rule Robin and I thought out through some mailing is the following.

Cross Fire

A -1 to the Guard of a defender unit is applied when they are being fired on at range.

If a unit is in close range for ranged weapons fire and at least half it's members can draw a line (uninterrupted by LOS blocking terrain) through the target unit to another friendly model (Gruntz or Vehicle) that is on the opposite side of the target and in close range from itself to the target and that already has shot at target unit this turn.

If the amount of shots (dice rolled) fired upon the target unit is at least half their number, the target unit also automatically suffers suppression when fired on by either flanking unit with no Mental check.

(You could add that both squads would have to shoot with their full number of shots on the target unit to bypass any rule bending, like a unit splitting fire left and right to gain crossfire for their friend)