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Post by brandu on Jun 8, 2013 9:33:08 GMT -5
Matt, I found where it says 10 in the errata (#2) but it didn't give the miniumum size. The 4 - 10 Squad size helps because now the pictures that were wrong are okay.
Still need a re-write for pages 44-47 where they contradict each other multiple times.
also: Page 77: Plasma Rifle costs 3 points. SA Plasma rifle costs 2 points for better stats. Page 77: SA Med Projectile costs 3 points. The Hvy Projectile costs 2 points.
-Patrick
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Post by comstar on Jun 8, 2013 16:25:36 GMT -5
Remember the standard rifle is for the whole squad (6 then is scaled to relevant squad size if required) where as the SA weapons are bought individually Which is why the cost is different
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Post by brandu on Jun 8, 2013 19:16:42 GMT -5
Okay, I'll buy that for the plasma. The projectiles though are both SA / S weapons.
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Post by twogunsblazing on Aug 13, 2013 21:07:13 GMT -5
Item 12 - I notice a mention of having a Skill check target roll of 12 for Gruntz to dive out of the way of a ramming vehicle. I would advise against making the roll too high, otherwise it will be too hard for Gruntz to avoid ramming vehicles and we will see a great number of Gruntz getting caught in base to base contact with a ramming vehicle, each Gruntz then taking ram damage. If this becomes the case, then it would be a far better choice for players to simply drive their vehicles around the board ramming Gruntz Squads, rather than trying to shoot them and use a variety of other tactical choices...and unrealistic form of combat and a game tactic I think we would be wise to avoid bringing about.
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Post by inrepose on Aug 14, 2013 8:29:18 GMT -5
I have some vacation time coming up in September and will be editing the rules then. Hoping to get an official updated PDF out before the holiday.
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Post by RuneCaster_Aris on Aug 14, 2013 11:18:00 GMT -5
Sweeeeeet!
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Post by hamilton on Aug 14, 2013 12:37:27 GMT -5
For dodging a ramming vehicle, doesn't it make more thematic sense to base Gruntz dodge on Guard instead of Skill?
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1.1 Errata
Aug 14, 2013 20:33:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by comstar on Aug 14, 2013 20:33:19 GMT -5
I thought with ram you had to still hit the target then the target gets a jump out of the way roll!
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Post by twogunsblazing on Aug 15, 2013 8:53:16 GMT -5
I thought with ram you had to still hit the target then the target gets a jump out of the way roll! I've been playing that a ram is auto hit, but a roll for damage (2d6+[ram damage]+AP1) is required. The reason I say this is in both shooting and assaulting it talks about to hit rolls and to damage rolls, however in ramming it doesn't specifically say this, only that if damage "scores" (suggesting a roll)...the language and sentence/paragraph lay out in ramming kind of suggests that ramming is a definitive choice (you either DO ram or you DON'T ram - not attempt to ram) and that only the damage is left up to chance...hence why the Gruntz have a chance to evade a ram (as they are smaller and could more easily avoid a ram than a large vehicle could). It also mentions in the ram paragraph, that if a pushed back rammed vehicle contacts a Gruntz squad, they will also suffer ram damage...again suggesting no requirement for a to hit roll. I absolutely admit I could be wrong, but that is how I have interpreted the rule and how I have been playing it. If I am wrong, then I think it couldn't hurt to further clarify in the errata that ramming requires a roll to hit, not only a roll to damage.
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Post by RuneCaster_Aris on Aug 15, 2013 8:59:23 GMT -5
I've always seen ram as a template attack, with the template being the vehicle's striking face.
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1.1 Errata
Aug 15, 2013 12:24:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by comstar on Aug 15, 2013 12:24:15 GMT -5
Page 30: vehicle assaults against Gruntz. (shortened but with main points) Move vehicle into base contact with as many models as possible (this is after react fire) it's move +3". Gruntz have the option to dive out the way 10+ on 2D6 (I think this is now a 12+). Any Gruntz passing will leave base contact. Then the vehicle fires any anti infantry weapons as normal at models in base contact. Once this is done any surviving models in base contact can have a ram attack (ie roll to hit) against them. Determine winner. Also with template weapons (ie flamer etc) you roll to hit each model underneath as per the erata 1.1. Hope this helps
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Post by twogunsblazing on Aug 15, 2013 18:38:41 GMT -5
Once this is done any surviving models in base contact can have a ram attack (ie roll to hit) against them. Ok, well if this is the case, I think it really couldn't hurt tidying the ram section up to explain clearly that a to hit roll is required. Whilst that is being done, another point in regards to ramming should be adjusted too, which is a point that Zephyr40K brought up in another thread. "Rams must move the total distance of move +3 inches and in a straight line"When a vehicle rams another vehicle it seems that it must complete a full move of its base move +3"...as Zephyr40K quried, could a light vehicle really force a super heavy vehicle to move in front of it as it completes its ram move? So if I had a Scout GSV with Grav propulsion (10" base move) and I rammed a Super Heavy Tank from 1" away....would the Scout vehicle really be able to push the Super Heavy Tank 12" along the table? Also, the close combat thing between vehicles really needs to be cleared up, and I think the errata would be a great opportunity for that to happen.
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1.1 Errata
Aug 16, 2013 19:42:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by comstar on Aug 16, 2013 19:42:36 GMT -5
I'm not to sure where you are getting this "must" move total distance from. Page 38 "Ram: A ram must be in a direct straight line and is made with a +3 inches to the base normal movement of the vehicle. Vehicle Ram damage is based on the size class." Page 30 "Vehicles may ram up to their normal movement +3" in order to assault a Grunts unit in it's front arc. Gruntz in the side or rear arcs may not be assaulted." After react fire it says: "If a vehicle survives it is moved into base to base contact with as many models as possible.(This may mean some models moving out of coherency as the vehicle rams into their position." This inplies that they are not pushed back but pushed aside to maximise the frontage of attack. I have done a house rule which depending on size class of vehicle will push back (if attack sucessful) the size difference as both vehicle collide with each other (mutual damage). If vehicle is same size or smaller no extra movement but say a heavy colliding with a small vehicle two sizes smaller bounces 2" backward with larger vehicle staying in contact (this only applies if it has sufficient movement in the first place) I hope this clarifies the issue
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Post by twogunsblazing on Aug 16, 2013 20:26:13 GMT -5
I'm not to sure where you are getting this "must" move total distance from. I'm getting it from the section that deals specifically with vehicle rams, the Vehicle Rams section on page 33, where it says "Rams must move the total distance of move +3 inches and in a straight line"
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1.1 Errata
Aug 17, 2013 11:22:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by comstar on Aug 17, 2013 11:22:13 GMT -5
Ok now I've seen it but i think its a mistake as on page 38 its a must be in a straight line and everywhere else it's a "can" not "must" on movement its the same on page 32 as well it states Ram: Can move up to base move plus +3 inches. Can not fire weapons. (which is odd as you can fire anti infantry weapons when assaulting Gruntz which essentially is the same as a Ram!)
So thats where you are getting the must movement from I personally would go with "can" not "must" as this was how Robin described the process with me when we were going through assault moves in general
It's says that it's an attack so roll to hit is still required but vehicle push only happens after damage (D3") has been rolled then any collision after are auto hit but Gruntz still can attempt to jump out of the way.
I never spotted the critical damage roll for a successful ram. Ouch! That may stop you doing it anyway!
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