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Post by brandu on Apr 21, 2013 11:26:36 GMT -5
I bought the v1.1 PDF and the Barracks App thinking this was a completed game.
I want to like this game. I really do like the gameplay aspects of it.
Unfortunately, the lack of proof reading, ambigious rules and examples and things just done wrong are leaving me very disapointed.
I don't see any Errata download available or even a FAQ.
Weapons costs that are clearly wrong. eg: The SA Medium Projectile costs 3 pts, the Specialist Heavy Projectile costs 2 for better stats. Force Shields and Heavy Force Shields having the same cost.
The fact that the Gruntz and SA Builder contradicts itself on three different pages including the example is beyond silly. (Pages 44, 46, 47). Gruntz are supposed to be the core of the game and for this to be screwed up... well, it kind of sours the whole thing.
There are picture examples (notably concerning SA's) that are obviously incorrect. I have been told these are holdovers from v1.0
In fact most of the comments I have received concerning the found issues reference v1.0
I hate to put it this way, and it sounds kinda crappy, but I don't care about v1.0. I never played it, and I don't really care what it included. I care about the game that I payed for.
I bought this based off of comments I found on TMP and the Gruntz Yahoo page, and now I'm just glad I didn't drop the money for the printed rules, because this is obviously a Beta Set. I just wish i had known that before I spent the money that I have.
Somebody please let me know when v2.0 comes out. I'll probably buy it, because like I said, I do like the game.
Before I get accused of 'bad-mouthing' the game and/or Robin... I'm not. I am only posting my rant comments here on this board, not some completely open one like TMP in the hope that something could get fixed.
-Patrick
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Post by Aristo on Apr 21, 2013 11:42:32 GMT -5
I hope that FAQ rolls around soon. Some things do need a little polishing.
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Post by blooddave on Apr 21, 2013 12:39:58 GMT -5
I hear you, Brandu. All games have errata, and problems. I recently bought Tomorrow's War, and the book layout is a mess. It next to impossible to learn the game from the rulebook. Reviewers on the internet agree. And that's a game put out by a "real" company. Gruntz is an indie game - written by Robin and play-tested by a yahoo group. There's no editing department, or graphic design group involved here. Don't get me wrong, there *are* problems. I also wish there was an official errata list, in one place, not scattered though several forum threads. As for Barracks, take a look at gruntomatic: www.gruntomatic.com/ the author has a fixed (and reported to Robin) some bugs that Barracks has, so that Gruntomatic is actually more accurate at this time. Gruntz is still a great game, and extremely playable in it's current state. The errors are, for the most part, minor, if annoying. Don't give up on it.
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Post by brandu on Apr 21, 2013 13:52:19 GMT -5
Thank you both for your comments. Yes, I use Gruntomatic as it's more accurate (and i've pointed Quozl towards inconsistancies) but he can't fix what is wrong in the book. eg: the projectile weapon points mistake. I understand it is an indie production but I'm also fairly sure that several people would volenteer to proof read if a request went out. The picture example being wrong and showing a 7th gruntz trooper with a SA is plainly wrong and shouldn't take a lot to fix for example.
Like i said, I like the gameplay. I want to like the game as a whole. I'm currently in the planning pre-buid stage of a World Works spaceship that is entirely to big but I'm going to build it anyways.
-Patrick "Cheops was insufficiently ambitious." - Vernon Tyler
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Post by comstar on Apr 21, 2013 14:06:23 GMT -5
Hi Patrick The projectile weapon is 1 point not 3. I realise there are lots of errors but once the profile cards are made it's a great game to play I'm sorting out stats for a serenity game for a con in may so I better get back to that ! Cheers Matt
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quozl
Sub General
Posts: 165
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Post by quozl on Apr 21, 2013 14:26:15 GMT -5
The projectile weapon is 1 point not 3. Just reading the thread and spotted this. Should the SA medium projectile weapon be 1 point? I can change it in the gruntomatic if I anyone can provide a link to official confirmation of this? [edit]Gruntomatic now costs SA medium projectile at 1 point, and FA version at 4 points[/edit]
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Post by Aristo on Apr 21, 2013 14:28:11 GMT -5
I think that's what comstar was referring to - it makes sense to me, given the stats, at least.
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Post by squinch on Apr 21, 2013 16:16:36 GMT -5
In reading through this thread I realized the (threads) author got something he would never recieve from the Other game 'companies'. He has direct access to the creator and group of enthusiests that make it such a great game.
If you want to look for 'point' inconsistencies which include any kind of imbalance, take a quick look at any GW product (read Codex). Then call GW and see of they're willing to discuss it, much less change it.
What game doesn't have those items you mentioned? Let me know and i'll try it. The real question is can you work with the group of players to make the game something you enjoy.
Another note on points. As the designer has probably stated, there are no truely balanced points based games. This is due to the vast number of variables that effect the outcome. It takes a maturity of player ( and play group) and a good core system to get the closest.
My ever so biased opinion: That this game admits to being a work in progress is it's greatest feature.
Hope you stick with it and keep giving input. As you can see it does result in change. Squinch
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Post by brandu on Apr 21, 2013 16:32:26 GMT -5
Please read my second and last two paragraphs again. Please. That said, I can think of at least three other systems where the forum people hear from the maker consistently. SoBH, Dark Age and Fanticide just off the top of my head. The builder issue is a real one. It's about the core units of the game. I am playing the game. I'm adjusting as I go, but that's not going to fly at the LGS when I'm trying to get others interested. "Oh, just ignore half the info on SA's and how the points are figured." "No, there is no 7th figure in the unit, ignore those three example diagrams." "Why no, I don't have an errata for it, there isn't one." I have a game table in my house. My wife plays also. I'd like to be able to take it to the LGS and proudly show it off instead of sitting here and playing with ourselves... (and yes, I know how that sounds)
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Post by comstar on Apr 21, 2013 16:49:32 GMT -5
The projectile weapon is 1 point not 3. Just reading the thread and spotted this. Should the SA medium projectile weapon be 1 point? I can change it in the gruntomatic if I anyone can provide a link to official confirmation of this? This is correct as far as I can remember as this is what I sent Robin to help out with the builders. I think he has put the points for Auto Fire into the sheet insted of the original 1 point. I'm afraid my PC has had a hard drive failure so only have iPhone at moment so can not check easily I'm afriad! Hope this helps and Robin my chime in to confirm this
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Post by squinch on Apr 21, 2013 16:50:37 GMT -5
Players who have sampled games of all types tend to seek out the game mechanics which appeal to them. Based on the fact you bought purchased Gruntz means something in the mechanics was pleasing. This is the Core of a rule system, not unit stats. Squinch
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Post by squinch on Apr 21, 2013 16:53:04 GMT -5
sorry, double tap... Squinch
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Post by brandu on Apr 21, 2013 17:01:51 GMT -5
To me, and it's only my opinion, the Gruntz squad (and SA's by association) are the core unit(s) of the game. Perhaps I didn't say it clear enough previously.
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Post by squinch on Apr 21, 2013 18:14:54 GMT -5
What aspects of the game peaked your interest enough to purchase the rules? Squinch
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Post by brandu on Apr 21, 2013 18:50:20 GMT -5
Robin's two videos. I sat and watch both from start to finish. Khurasan's minis, that I have looked at before and said, "Damn, I wish I had a good spacehulk-ish (but better) game for these."
I own a LOT of games. From Ares (self modified for SF) to Warzone and a bunch in between.
I really like how Gruntz has put all the different types of troops and vehicles on the table. I like how the solo play works. I'm disappointed in the implementation.
Basically said: It's a good game, I'd like it to be great.
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