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Post by pfaghe on Oct 17, 2011 4:22:28 GMT -5
- transport: move double speed a vehicle and disembark the squad inside and shooting seems little too much for us. With a 2 slot transport and a commander, the squad may also disembark using a push action and after that assault. Do you feel the same? may be better something like "if the transport moved at double speed the squad inside cannot take any shooting/assault action but only disembark"?
- not clear what happen if I disembark a squad directly in difficult terrain (transport model outside the area terrain but touching it): the squad deploy within 3" from the transport or only 1,5"? we prefer the second option. The problem is partially solved extending the LOS to 5" inside an area (see below)
-area terrain and LOS: we found little odd using only 1" to fire outside an area terrain. may be better 2", to fire outside and to see inside. Or better and simpler use 5" for both LOS from outside and inside the area. In the second case the models are a lot more visible from outside an area but this one is balanced with the +1/+2 guard.
- prone and +2 bonus on firing. We think that the rule intend a prone model that doesn't move in the current activation. So if a model go prone, is a move, it will gain immediately +1 guard. next activation if it doesn't move will gain also +2 shooting.
- prone and cover bonuses are cumulative? so a power armor prone behind a small wall has Guard 16?
- Active Camo: +1 Guard if in cover seems a very powerful bonus for 1 point, in the example above the model has Guard 17 and 18 inside a building!
thanks
Paolo
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Post by comstar on Oct 17, 2011 7:04:45 GMT -5
- transport: move double speed a vehicle and disembark the squad inside and shooting seems little too much for us. With a 2 slot transport and a commander, the squad may also disembark using a push action and after that assault. Do you feel the same? may be better something like "if the transport moved at double speed the squad inside cannot take any shooting/assault action but only disembark"? - not clear what happen if I disembark a squad directly in difficult terrain (transport model outside the area terrain but touching it): the squad deploy within 3" from the transport or only 1,5"? we prefer the second option. The problem is partially solved extending the LOS to 5" inside an area (see below) -area terrain and LOS: we found little odd using only 1" to fire outside an area terrain. may be better 2", to fire outside and to see inside. Or better and simpler use 5" for both LOS from outside and inside the area. In the second case the models are a lot more visible from outside an area but this one is balanced with the +1/+2 guard. - prone and +2 bonus on firing. We think that the rule intend a prone model that doesn't move in the current activation. So if a model go prone, is a move, it will gain immediately +1 guard. next activation if it doesn't move will gain also +2 shooting. - prone and cover bonuses are cumulative? so a power armor prone behind a small wall has Guard 16? - Active Camo: +1 Guard if in cover seems a very powerful bonus for 1 point, in the example above the model has Guard 17 and 18 inside a building! thanks Paolo Hi Paolo Yes you can move double with a transport then get out the infantry on there activation. They can not use a push move to get out only to get in (which does actually seem odd page 22) But you only get one action after this so can shoot. But you can not move three times with a push move (page 14) and you would in theory be doing this if you charging! So move to get out and then move + 2" to charge. But does that only count as two or does it count as three... I think Robin will have to clarify that one as I don't see this working. Again not sure about difficult terrain as it says within not move but I think that 1.5" is a possible answer another one for Robin I think! I think you are describing woodland not area terrain as there is a 5" range in woods while more than 1" into woods this goes when you are with 1" of the wood edge. It does not state that you can target more than 1" into wood or the 5" so again clarification maybe required. I have always seen it as blocking terrain for shooting purposes unless you are within an 1" of the edge. And seen it as the view inside the woods is limited to 5" not to the outside of the woods! Going prone takes one action and also one action to get back up. I think that prone stacks with cover as it states that it does not stack with not moving for shooting purposes. I think you are getting Guard and Soak confused. Cover and active camo add to Guard only not to soak! So yes you may have a Guard 14 power armor but that would be very unbalanced. I normally give them 11 or max 12 so with your example that would be 14 Guard in hard cover while prone but there soak would still be the usual 14 / 15 for power armor  Sorry I could not answer all your questions but I am sure Robin will fill in the gaps and also correct me where I may have gone wrong Cheers Matt PS for our games we do use some house rules to go with our gaming stile as these are not tourney style rules and just for fun game. |
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Post by pfaghe on Oct 18, 2011 7:25:33 GMT -5
Yes you can move double with a transport then get out the infantry on there activation. They can not use a push move to get out only to get in (which does actually seem odd page 22) But you only get one action after this so can shoot.
But you can not move three times with a push move (page 14) and you would in theory be doing this if you charging! So move to get out and then move + 2" to charge. But does that only count as two or does it count as three... I think Robin will have to clarify that one as I don't see this working.
about the assault rule is clear, but I see is not the same for you ;D ! the game uses some orders composed of 2 fixed actions: run (2 normal move actions), move&fire (1 normal move + 1 fire actions) and assault (1 normal move with a bonus + 1 fight in close combat). so, like with the run order, if a squad assault an enemy unit it must use only that order. A push order will allow a target unit to move twice and fire (pag. 14) or move and assault (so de facto move twice again and fight the close combat, pag 19). About disembark we assume that a Commander with a push order can give a Movement action both to embark or disembark (no reason to give the push order only to embarking). And because a push order can disembark or embark a squad, we can say that embark and disembark are both move actions (push order give a move bonus action, but a model cannot move 3 times). At the end a squad using a push order may disembark and: - move&fire - assault cannot run (3 moves) we feel that, after a DOUBLE vehicle moves, this possibility is too powerful. hope is clear now. edit: forgot that without a push order a unit can disembark using one action and after that shoot using the second action. Or move again using the second action. So theoretically might be also fight in close combat if once disembarked is in base contact with enemy models 
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Post by inrepose on Oct 20, 2011 5:59:35 GMT -5
??transport: move double speed a vehicle and disembark the squad inside and shooting seems little too much for us. With a 2 slot transport and a commander, the squad may also disembark using a push action and after that assault. Do you feel the same? may be better something like "if the transport moved at double speed the squad inside cannot take any shooting/assault action but only disembark"?
You can't disembark if a vehicle does a double move. I think I added something to say that Drop troops with jump packs can jump out but the standard rule is they can't get out on a double move. Remember transported troops are independent from the vehicle.
>>- not clear what happen if I disembark a squad directly in difficult terrain (transport model outside the area terrain but touching it): the squad deploy within 3" from the transport or only 1,5"? we prefer the second option. The problem is partially solved extending the LOS to 5" inside an area (see below)
I think I would stick to it being 3" even in rough on the basis that you are using a full single action to clear the vehicle and potential form a mini-permineter. The vehicle has also shoved its way into the terrain, perhaps making it easier to stroll out onto flattened scrub/bushes. However as a house rule it sounds fair to tweak it to 1.5".
>>-area terrain and LOS: we found little odd using only 1" to fire outside an area terrain. may be better 2", to fire outside and to see inside. Or better and simpler use 5" for both LOS from outside and inside the area. In the second case the models are a lot more visible from outside an area but this one is balanced with the +1/+2 guard.
Thats one I would consider tweaking. I have not done a lot of testing in woods/trees type cover. So understanding how this plays out with cover instead of LOS would be interesting.
>> prone and +2 bonus on firing. We think that the rule intend a prone model that doesn't move in the current activation. So if a model go prone, is a move, it will gain immediately +1 guard. next activation if it doesn't move will gain also +2 shooting.
I will have to think about this. It sort of falls into the "Record keeping" type of adjustment which results in having to remember the prone condition for the next activation. However if you use a prone counter you should be OK.
>> prone and cover bonuses are cumulative? so a power armor prone behind a small wall has Guard 16?
They are very well bedded down, having gone into prone and found a strong point to defend. Are you assuming +1 Guard from prone and +2 from hard cover? So a guard 13 PA unit?
- Active Camo: +1 Guard if in cover seems a very powerful bonus for 1 point, in the example above the model has Guard 17 and 18 inside a building!
Depends on the guard level 14 Guard is high, although I agree 1 point perhaps need a shift upwards. You would have to use a concentrate fire action to hit a unit with that sort of modified guard but it is not a typical situation.
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Post by comstar on Oct 20, 2011 6:40:29 GMT -5
"You can't disembark if a vehicle does a double move. I think I added something to say that Drop troops with jump packs can jump out but the standard rule is they can't get out on a double move. Remember transported troops are independent from the vehicle." Sorry Robin (unless missed it and it is somewhere else  ) I thought this was only for Flying transport doing a rapid deployment page 24. As this gives you a extra 4" of movement to do a drop and dust off but requiring Jump Jets on the grunts to do it. In the normal section on carrying troops page 22 and on page 26 it doesn't state anything with double move that i can see and if i remember in one of your demo vids you had a small transport moving twice across open ground and then deploying a mortar with its activation. But it may be in the newer rules you are working on as it may have more clarification on this happy either way round Also with a push move it states you can embark but nothing on disembarking! Is this correct as it does seem a bit odd. Cheers for your time Matt |
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Post by pfaghe on Oct 21, 2011 12:09:53 GMT -5
>> prone and +2 bonus on firing. We think that the rule intend a prone model that doesn't move in the current activation. So if a model go prone, is a move, it will gain immediately +1 guard. next activation if it doesn't move will gain also +2 shooting.
I will have to think about this. It sort of falls into the "Record keeping" type of adjustment which results in having to remember the prone condition for the next activation. However if you use a prone counter you should be OK.
you are right there is something to remember from one turn to another one, but +2 to shooting in prone condition in the same action could be too much. we will test it more. >> prone and cover bonuses are cumulative? so a power armor prone behind a small wall has Guard 16?no I'm was speaking of Powered armor guard 14, +1 prone +1 behind small wall , 16guard. if shooting 4 you hit with 12, with shooting 5 with 11. sure you have to use the concentrated fire, I think is the only solution here. It was only to know if prone add the bonus with the cover, in the book is better add this clarification same for disembarking. we played exactly like you said, no actions for squads inside a transport that moved using double move. better adding this one togheter with the possibility to push disembarking unit, like said comstar, in the next update . thanks again Robin
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) I thought this was only for Flying transport doing a rapid deployment page 24. As this gives you a extra 4" of movement to do a drop and dust off but requiring Jump Jets on the grunts to do it.